Curse

Zinger314 · Nov 05, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

I think everyone who reads this topic knows what I'm about to suggest.

(NF Spoillers, for those weirdos who mouse-over topics!)

Yeah, the Shiro/Lich fight. It's a bit unbalanced, since the only way for most players (emphasis) to clear those two bosses is through niche skills, such as SS and Spoil Victor. Shiro's Impossible Odds really tears up groups.

Therefore, I'm proposing a rebalance of that fight, one which weakens Shiro, and more importantly, buffs the Lich

#1: Remove Impossible Odds from Shiro's skill-set. We don't have celestial skills like Celestial Stance to absorb the sheer blunt damage this attack can deal.

#2: Reinstate a weakened version of Meditation of the Reaper to Shiro's skill-set. According to the NPC at the Gates of Madness outpost, Shiro once had Meditation of the Reaper, but I guess ArenaNet removed it. I propose ArenaNet reinstate it, but with a shorter duration, probably 5 seconds or so. This not only would increase the difficulty of the fight, (since I proposed removing Impossible Odds), but it would also prevent capturing the Altars as easily.

#3: Buff the Lich's HP/Armor. I don't know why, but he dies way, way too fast.

#4: Reinstate Soul Vortex (in a slightly different form) to Lich's skill-set. Soul Vortex was an interesting skill during Hell's Precipace. It caused a lot of disarray. A Soul Vortex, which teleported all creatures within earshot from the Lich (including Shiro and the Lich), could cause some funny effects.

#5: Allow Shiro and the Lich to be vulnerable to Lightbringer's Gaze. It just makes sense.

Gates of Madness has 2 districts. That's a sign too many people are struggling.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 06, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

#5 definately

But people will learn. And eventually it was always dwindle down into groups allowing only a certain set of skills on players making for another dull PvE experience. No reason to make it any easier, just kill the lich first. Shiro's main power comes from the spike of battle scars and IO, if he takes no damage battle scars dont do anything.

Omega X · Nov 06, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

I Beat that with 6 puggers and 2 hench monks.

1. Casters Spread out when Shiro is around.

2. Kill The Lich first.

3. Kite Shiro throughout the complex while you defeat the guys guarding the God statues.

4. When capped all 5 gods, Kill Shiro. Remember to stay spread out.

Owned him in no time and got Masters.

And BTW, Shiro doesn't have Meditation of the Reaper in Gates Of Madness because he isn't a Grim Reaper anymore remember? And the Lich most likely doesn't have Soul Vortex because he doesn't have the Scepter anymore.

The fact that they are both coming at you at the same time is Madness in itself. But they are much weaker than before.

Blightfire · Nov 06, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Well I did it with 7henchies and myself... This isn't the first thread for it and i don't see why it should be nerfed... lets not make this into a fisher price game please

linh · Nov 06, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Why does it need a nerf ??? This is like a "THK is too hard" thread.
I did it with heroes and henchies with no SS or Spoil Victor at all. I just brought Koss with Wild Blow, and control henchies, so only Koss will be Shiro's target, and Protective Spirit him, then all attack him as normal. Simple.

PS: I think the last mission should be improved. It is just too easy to do to be the last boss and last mission.

00039 · Nov 06, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

I managed to beat him with a friend the other night on my ele by spamming lightning javelin to keep him from attacking

Guildmaster Cain · Nov 06, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Shiro cant even make a dent in a sigarette package if his health isnt below 25%. Below, his damage is insane. Too bad he cant use AIO when hes continously running around in circles... Because Shiro most likely gets 'attached' to one partymember in particular, often a Paragon. Let him run around in circles, Shiro will follow. The rest stay in center and keep wanding at Shiro, aided by degen hexes (no conditions, he reflects them).
The Lich is a pushover, he only uses the Enchantment stealing skill, about 100 times per minute. Hmm I wonder if it was a skill or a spell, in the latter case, I think Backfire would kill the Lich in 5 secs.

Nevin · Nov 06, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I don't get it... I beat them with hereos and henchies. Its called kiting people, just don't group together?

Lania Elderfire · Nov 13, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

My complaint is not that it's too hard, but it's too long. I noticed some other NF missions are very long as well, and I miss those factions missions that can be done in 15 minutes. Personally I have things I need to get done, and I just don't have to time to sit on my computer and play NF all day and night. I thought the prophecies fire island missions were friggin long, but at least they were simple. Now it's just long, annoying and frustrating especially when you only have enough time to do one mission a night.

Lykan · Nov 13, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

This mission does not need a nerf.

Lania Elderfire · Nov 16, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Might not need a nerf but it's friggin annoying, frustrating and stressful to have to go through it several times to kill shiro. I really don't need the frustration, maybe it's time to quit the game?

Some Guru Named Kai · Nov 16, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

I like that the missions became harder, especially having a mission like Gates of Madness. I had to go through it 3 times, (1st was getting owned by Shiro because I didn't know about SS or SV, 2nd and 3rd was over agroing.) And I went through the frustrating moments, ranted a bit to guildies.

(sorry guys if that was annoying) But I can truthfully say that, once I had beat it, it was a great moment of victory, I literally said "Yes!" outloud while doing a fistpump.

That's something, I'm pretty sure, a game developer always want their players to celebrate.

So I disagree with nerfing it. It's perfect the way it is, it's not impossible and it's not a pushover mission. It IS 2nd to the last, so players by then are expected to be a tougher and better player than when leaving consulate docks. Whether seasoned or new-comer to Guild Wars.

Chris616263 · Nov 16, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I got lucky when I beat him. Keep in mind I was the only human on my team.

After he was down to 40% health and used IO; he actually managed to wipe most of my team. So we ran off, and began slowly rebirthing everyone. I flagged my heroes away and attacked him full force. I got lucky somehow. SOMEHOW, the heroes were just far away enough to be out of his range, but in range enough to cast prot spirit/shield of regen/etc on me; and he used IO on me without teleporting around. The result was me whittling Shiro down with my axe for a minute or two until he finally collapsed.

Thallandor · Nov 16, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I think everyone who reads this topic knows what I'm about to suggest.

(NF Spoillers, for those weirdos who mouse-over topics!)

What do you have against weirdos who mouse-over topics! Hmmmm? HMMMMmm?

lightblade · Nov 16, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

This can be the only mission that's still remain challenging. Why nerf?

Lania Elderfire · Nov 16, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Why nerf?

Because not all GW players play the game all day... Some of us have things called carrears and a life and don't have time to redo the mission many times just to beat it.

broodijzer · Nov 16, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

this mission doesnt need a nerf. It can be frustrating the first few times, but there are many ways to defeat him. The method that worked for me (in a pug) was just to run away when he used IO. It was a chaos, but he died easily. and no special skills needed.

bamm bamm bamm · Nov 16, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lania Elderfire

Because not all GW players play the game all day... Some of us have things called carrears and a life and don't have time to redo the mission many times just to beat it.

I've attempted the mission twice, past it twice. Got the masters on the second go. Both with pugs (omg pugs lol). No 'niche skills'. No coordination (beyond 'you heal? ok I go prot. rdy?'). This mission does not need a nerf. I had some genuine difficulty with multiple missions, but this was not one of them. I took on Abaddon with the same pug and it actually took a couple of attempts, which is more than I can say for this mission. I can't for the life of me figure out why people are flipping out over it. If IO is wiping half your team you are doing something wrong.

Maybe people need to learn to play with other people for certain missions.

Rera · Nov 16, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

The only problem I have with nerfing Gates of Madness is that it remains the only mission in the game that presents any kind of difficulty whatsoever. I would be all for a nerf of Madness if they made the rest of the game harder.

I am tired of people complaining about PuGs and presenting ways to fix it, without taking a look at why players are bad in the first place. Some of you have never considered the fact that, if you can beat the entire game without learning a damn thing (as was the case in the both Prophecies and Factions), most of the players are going to suck. The mending wammo is never going to learn that his build sucks if it keeps working - and the only way for it to not work is to make the missions harder.

A harder game might result in fewer players due to frustration, but it also results in *better* players among those who stay.

Jeremy Untouchable · Nov 16, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

lol, I was in a pug with you on this mission zinger, Well i'm still stuck there, i cant get a group with the damage to make it to shiro, and the survieabilty to tank him..................................I agree with your whole post